THE WINTER LONG open thread! (SPOILERS!)

[Vixy]

Here's a place to discuss The Winter Long, as spoilerifically as you like, without authorial influence. (i.e. Seanan does NOT read this section.)

[jesslynh]

Let me start with a 'where do I start'?

Not only do we have a missing Amandine, we have a missing August. Maybe they're both off having tea with Oberon, but I kinda doubt it.
Simon? Ugh.
Oh no Sylvester.....
The Luidaeg is all that and a bag of chips.

The biggest surprises for me were Sylvester and Luna.

I do have a question for the general public.
Sylvester said that he couldn't explain anything to Toby because of 'promises' made to her mother. That sounded way more casual than a vow, but still a matter of keeping your word. I was surprised that Toby didn't try to understand it at all--she didn't cut him any slack on that. Is it just me?

[bcaa12]

wonderful book
quite the revelations, language, language.
I knew to be careful and still fell to the trap, so who is Amandine's mother?
the clue is there Amandine of Faerie, so far the only firstborn to be named such, a clue?
another big question is how human is Toby, Winterrose kept needling about than one.

[karmicbias]

Oh my gosh this was amazing. I was about halfway through (right around Eira's big reveal) and glad I was alone because I started shouting all sorts of obscenities. So brilliant, can't wait to see what happens next!

But kind of a weird question... I got my copy at B&N--and there's an error (at least, I'm assuming it is) on the cover: "An October Day Novel." Anyone else? The font of this text is different from the one Seanan posted on her LJ back in April and the io9 quote is missing (but that's now on the back cover)... did I get some bizarro-world edition, or is this some understandable but unfortunate printing error?

[Vixy]

Just an unfortunate printing error.

[sleary]

WHEE!

I was not expecting to see Toby change Raysel's blood so soon! That, along with the ending, suggests that none of these elf-shot people are going to get the full-length nap. If Toby can break spells, can she break elf-shot? A geas? What other abilities was Simon hinting at?

Simon and Sylvester, poster children for poor life choices. I have more sympathy for Raysel than for either of her parents at the moment, and I would not have predicted that going into this book. It was SO NICE to see a coherent conversation with her, even if it was with her splintered personalities.

The Luidaeg is awfully forthcoming once she's off her leash. I was expecting Toby to have to dig more for information about Amandine's other child(ren), but nope, here you go! My word. Of course, in the past, she's used an onslaught of new information to stun Toby into overlooking what's been left out.

If Toby had told Mags what she knew about Amandine after the last book, Mags might have pointed out that her story didn't match the census data. The phone book. HA. Hahahhaha.

It was Evening who supported the Lady of the Mists' claim to Gilad's throne. Why? How did she benefit from having her as queen?

So many questions about Amandine's relationship with the Torquills answered, and so many remaining. Where was Shadowed Hills anchored before Sylvester moved it to Pleasant Hill, and why did he do so? Was Amandine's tower already there? Was Luna there because Amandine gave her shelter when she fled Blind Michael's lands? Was Amandine there because Evening was nearby?

Augh, I'll think about it once I finish SQUEEING FOREVER.

What's next? Searching for August? The Selkies' bill? Li Qin's favor? All three?

[fantasyfiend]

I do have a question for the general public.
Sylvester said that he couldn't explain anything to Toby because of 'promises' made to her mother. That sounded way more casual than a vow, but still a matter of keeping your word. I was surprised that Toby didn't try to understand it at all--she didn't cut him any slack on that. Is it just me?

I think promises are a serious thing but not to the point of dying or being injured if broken. In Rosemary and Rue when Toby gave Tybalt the hope chest, she made him promise to hold onto it. It was a formal thing with magic involved. Depending on how a promise is made, I think it is a vow. In that sense I understand why Sylvester didn't want to break his promise anymore than he already had.

Toby's reaction to Sylvester made sense to me. She obviously understands how promises work, but he hurt her feelings. They have a father daughter type of relationship, and he's been withholding info from her for her whole life. She always knew he was more loyal to his wife and daughter than her, but it hurt that he was more loyal to Amandine than her. He didn't go to any great length to explain himself or express deep sorrow. I think that was the clincher for Toby. I hope she doesn't forgive him quickly. He's got some major sucking up to do.

[fantasyfiend]

I do have a question for the general public.
Sylvester said that he couldn't explain anything to Toby because of 'promises' made to her mother. That sounded way more casual than a vow, but still a matter of keeping your word. I was surprised that Toby didn't try to understand it at all--she didn't cut him any slack on that. Is it just me?

Promises are taken seriously. In Rosemary and Rue Toby made Tybalt promise to hold onto the hope chest for her. It was a formal thing. They both said specific words and magic was involved. If the promise is broken I don't believe it results in anything serious like injury or death but they're still not taken lightly. Sylvester already broke part of his promise by giving Toby the changeling's choice. It makes sense that he didn't want to break his promise anymore than he already had.

Toby probably did understand all of that but it didn't prevent her feelings from being hurt either. She considers him to be a father and he's been lying to her for her whole life. It didn't help that he didn't express any deep sorrow either. I think Toby always believed that he was more loyal to her than what he really was; it was hard for her to learn the truth. I hope she doesn't forgive him too easily. He's got some major sucking up to do.

[beccacivi]

Ok... first, omg what a great book!
My money is still on Amandine being the first changeling of "The Big Three" and Oberon changed her blood tho fully fae.
I want to know what Toby did for the Luidaeg. Toby seemed to notice that her form sort of settled, as opposed to being always on the verge of changing. But u wanted more of an explaination as to what she seemed so great full for.
ENGAGEMENT! (I nearly died)
Can I just say how much I love Quinten and Raj's relatuonship?
And I hope Raj hasn't broken up with his girlfriend but I like him and Chelsea together.
I knew that we were going to have to deal with Eira at some point but I did not see Evening coming. And if Evening is a First, who was Dawn?
August?! I mean we knew that Amandine had other children but it was made to look like they all had passed or were killed.
And if Simon had killed Toby because Eira told him to, wouldn't that break the binding that Oberon put on Eira?
And as terrible as it is to say it, I sorta feel for Simon. He gets the "not as much of a jerky as you could have been" award, though I still don't get the laughing.
And one of my all time highlights is the Luidaeg commenting on Tybalt's ass.

[beccacivi]

Also, how did Toby not die when riding Evening's blood in RR? Does Oberon's protection bind her blood as well, can Evening change the potentency of her blood?

And one more thing that I'd like to mention. Did Toby assume that Amandine named her after a month because of her friendship with the Torquills? The only other fae that we've met that had months for names have been Torquills. And now that we know about Simon, the name makes slightly more sense (even though she is not a Torquill by blood).

[KristenAnn]

I haven't been able to get ahold of the book and read it yet, so I'm surviving off spoilers. I've never really liked Luna's character and I've liked her even less after she sent Toby to die in a previous book, I was even pretty mad at Sylvester for not sticking up for Toby much then, and when she got hit with the goblin fruit pie/elf shot and woke up to find he'd been keeping things from her, then there was the time Orleander poisoned Luna and when Sylvester found out Toby went after her at that ball his family threw he had one of his break downs and blamed Toby. She has a family she built on her own, outside of that she keeps getting betrayed. Can anyone tell me when Sylvester and Luna did this time? I feel so out of the loop.

[Starsgirl]

Huge revelations! And yet clues were always there. I remember reading Rosemary and Rue thinking it was strange that Evening bound October to find who did that to her; not who killed her. I cannot wait for the next book!

One question: any chance of a short story of Tybalt and Toby's first introduction told from Tybalt's TOV?

Okay, another question: how about a Tybalt short story that shows us what happens while he's away from Toby and "seeing to his court?"

Like Toby, I never thought I'd hate Luna. I now understand where Raysel's unpleasant personality comes from. Unlike Toby, I never could understand the pedestal our favorite Knight put Luna on.

I feel sorry for Sylvester. I think there's much more to Simon's implication of Sylvester being in love with Amandine. Just a hunch.

[Vixy]

One question: any chance of a short story of Tybalt and Toby's first introduction told from Tybalt's TOV?

Okay, another question: how about a Tybalt short story that shows us what happens while he's away from Toby and "seeing to his court?"

You do realize this is the thread that Seanan specifically DOES NOT read, right? If you'd like her to actually answer questions about what she might write in the future, you'll have to ask on her livejournal or via her website contact form.

[Mercury]

One question: any chance of a short story of Tybalt and Toby's first introduction told from Tybalt's TOV?

Okay, another question: how about a Tybalt short story that shows us what happens while he's away from Toby and "seeing to his court?"

You do realize this is the thread that Seanan specifically DOES NOT read, right? If you'd like her to actually answer questions about what she might write in the future, you'll have to ask on her livejournal or via her website contact form.

I'd also like to read the Tybalt stories. If you do ask her can you tell us what she says please?

[Marzie]

Does anyone else think that Eira is Amandine's mother? Both their magic smells of roses and the gaes on the Luidaeg prevents her from telling Toby who her grandmother is. The one geas on the Luidaeg that we know of is Evening/Eira's.